VS Battles Wiki is a site where the members attempt to index the statistics of characters across different fictional franchises. This leads to much discussion about certain feats, statements and calcs, about their validity, reliability, etcetera.
However, certain topics keep popping up repeatedly, generally made by new members, despite being discussed and resolved multiple times in the past. The managing staff has grown weary continuously settling the more controversial issues to rest again and again, and hence have listed a few rules, to limit redundant discussions.
- In the talk sections of this wiki's character profile pages, please sign with your username at the end of your posts, by adding four "~" signs.
- Before starting to argue in our forums, please read the logical fallacies page.
- First check if a certain topic has been handled previously. You can do so by clicking here and searching for a specific verse or character page title. We have also added "related discussions" links to our new forum at the bottom of our verse and character profile pages.
- When creating new discussion threads in the external forum, it is required that our members add the relevant previously existing tags to them, for example the verse and most prominent characters that will be discussed during a content revision. If something goes wrong, and you need to add or change the tags of a certain thread, please ask our thread moderators or administrators for help. For further information click here.
- Only add tags that are directly relevant to the discussion threads. This includes the names of verses and characters for which revisions are being argued about. However, do not add mostly unrelated tags, such as for instruction or policy pages, unless the contents of the pages themselves are being discussed. Otherwise, it will get hard to find important older discussions for each particular subject. Click here for further information.
- You should use the following page to better keep track of your watched threads. The ones with new replies have bold text: https://vsbattles.com/watched/threads
- When arguing for changing character statistics, do not assume that the staff will have in-depth knowledge about the fictional franchise in question. Make sure to explain your suggestions in a structured manner that is easy to comprehend. You will not be allowed to change any statistics if people cannot understand what you mean.
- To reiterate, when creating content revision threads, it is best to keep your suggestions as structured and simple to understand as possible, so the staff will have an easier time evaluating the text. Avoid writing upgrade threads mainly based on assumptions from a limited amount of information, with no additional context or evidence to support them.
- Before making sweeping or significant changes to characters or verse pages, please start a thread in the Content Revision forum first, so that the suggestions may be evaluated by the Staff and the community at large, to ensure that they are acceptable. The concluding evaluations must be handled by Thread Moderators, Administrators, or Bureaucrats, who should make an effort to base their evaluations on valid arguments, not personal opinions.
- Content Revision Threads need to be supported by scans, quotes, video clips, accepted calculations, or any other direct proof that claimed events actually happened in the source material. In the absence of this evidence, CRTs may be closed without notice.
- To get better input in a content revision thread, inspect the knowledgeable members list for verses to get information about the people who know much about a franchise, and leave polite notices on their message walls that ask them to participate in the discussion. If staff members are present, they can also use the @Username command to send automatic notifications to others. However, this does not work for regular members.
- There is also a knowledgeable members list for the terminology, standards, and concepts of this wiki, that you can use in the same manner.
- Generally try to avoid derailing content revision discussion threads from the original topic, We cannot deal with too many different subjects at once, so it is usually better to start a new thread instead.
- A single verse shouldn't have more than 3 content revisions threads running simultaneously. If 3 are already running, one of them should be concluded before a new one is created.
- Please do not bump topics that have been inactive for over 3 months without a legitimate argument, and entirely avoid bumping topics that have been concluded. However, we make exceptions for versus threads. There is no exact time limit as long as the characters in question are not outdated.
- Please avoid creating image-sharing threads featuring characters that you find attractive. This is because they often lead from friendly fun to sexualized drawings of minors or otherwise get out of hand into NSFW areas.
- If there exist conflicting accepted calculations for the same feat, the calc group members should discuss which ones that are most reliable to use in their own forum. The calc group is free to ask for relevant information from reliable members, by using the knowledgeable members list for verses or the associated verse page list of supporters. After a decision has been reached, and the most reliable calculations have been selected, a discussion should be started in the content revision forum to decide which characters that should scale to the feats.
- To use images on the forum, you must use image upload sites such as Imgur, ImgBB, etcetera, and link the URL of the image that ends with .png, .jpg, .jpeg or .gif by using the IMG code. It likely won't work if you simply use the URL for the page in which the image is hosted. Given that Fandom seems to disallow hotlinking to its hosted images from external sites, doing so in our forum either won't work or will significantly reduce their displayed size. However, you can still link to wiki images in the following manner: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:VS_Battles_Main_Image_3.png
- Please refrain from creating content revision threads that consist solely of links to off-site sources (such as Youtube, Reddit, other VS forums, etc.) and have no discernible arguments of their own. Many of these sources are not made with our specific standards in mind, lack proper source references, and may contain a lot of arguments that have already been discussed or are useless for the purpose of the relevant threads, which makes them hard to evaluate. As such, it is highly encouraged that when creating a content revision thread based on off-site sources, our members should specify their core arguments in detail with relevant evidence. It is also acceptable to post such threads in the general discussion or questions and answers sections of our forum for discussion, rather than in the content revision section. Furthermore, adding a link to a respect thread or character analysis video with the intention of providing quick access to a large collection of feats is acceptable, but each of those feats should be analysed step by step to ensure that they are not presented out of context, and any calculation-dependent feats should be placed in wiki blog posts and evaluated by our calc group members to ensure sufficient accuracy.
- Do not attempt to downgrade Avatar characters speeds as the characters were shown to normally master and react to natural lightning.
Ben 10 Rules
- Do not try to upgrade the cosmology or the cast to 1-B based on the statements from the Naljians or their toy. Although one of the them stated that "there are only 26 dimensions that matter", there is not enough sufficient evidence to scale them to such level, as they only have one appearance and statement in the entire series, and the mentioning of dimensions doesn't automatically fit the criteria in our Tiering System for the purpose of tiering.
In addition, although the Naljian toy was stated to be more advanced than the Omnitrix, when it replicated Gwen Tennyson's form, it displayed a clear inability to copy her powers accurately, instead using pink disks to replace the energy disks. As such, it is very difficult to imagine that it can copy the powers of a Celestialsapien when it could not fully replicate the powers of a lower tier species.
Black Clover Rules
- Please do not attempt to change the statistics of Asta with Black Divider without new, relevant information from the anime or manga, based on whether or not it scales above Licht's Conquering Eon. This topic has been addressed numerous times, with the majority of prevailing arguments being shown and refuted here, and it has become tiring to deal with them over and over again. This discussion rule was agreed on here.
- Regading Sosuke Aizen and Dangai Ichigo, Aizen uses the metaphor of describing their "transcendant" transformation as being akin to a third dimensional lifeform being superior to a second dimensional lifeform. However this is only metaphorical to illustrate the difference between them and other characters and it is not suggested that the characters actually possibly some kind of physiology of higher-dimensional lifeforms. Revisions should not be made to add this to these characters.
- The current size for the Seireitei is accepted as being 509.3 kilometers in radius based on a statement from Yoruichi in chapter 76. There are visuals and other issues that contradict that size but there is also supporting evidence that indicates a large size for the Seireitei. Any future revisions concerning the size of the Seireitei should wait for additional evidence from the likes of databooks, adaptations, Word of God, etc. which could affect our current understanding of the Seireitei.
- Do not create discussion threads trying to upgrade Yhwach to 3-A or Low 2-C for attempting to destroy the Soul Society and the Living World until new canon information is released. These terms have been accepted to refer to the planets in said context, and the topic has been extensively discussed many times.
- Gremmy creating outer space has been discussed numerous times and even accepted to be legitimate/scale to his AP but was rejected as an outlier as it is tiers above any other feat performed in the series by characters of his calibre and is inconsistent with Gremmy's other feats in his battle with Kenpachi.
DC Comics Rules
- Do not attempt to upgrade The Presence/Yahweh from DC Comics to tier 0, simply because he is stated to be omnipotent and is the verse's depiction of the monotheistic god. This topic has been discussed extensively in the past, and it has been concluded that the Presence has shown far too many limitations (Such as equals or near equals in power in Elaine Belloc and The Great Evil Beast, stating that he was created by human imagination, being mere fiction to Monitor-Mind The Overvoid, being severely damaged by Gabriel Hornblower, and being healed by Michael Demiurgos) to be ranked as anything beyond his 1-A rating. Also keep in mind that statements of omnipotence are never accepted as proof.
- Please don't attempt to upgrade the Sphere of Gods to tier Low 1-A or 1-A. It has been discussed numerous times and firmly rejected, as it is very inconsistent and contradictory. However, if new information regarding the Sphere of Gods is canonically published by DC Comics, the discussion can be resumed.
Dragon Ball Rules
- Do not attempt to change the current Dragon Ball cosmology and power ratings without new evidence from an ongoing manga or anime series. We have heard all of the arguments many times before, and are so exhausted of constantly dealing with those topics that bringing them up recurrently leads to nowhere, with the discussion threads being oftentimes closed immediately.
- We do not use the Daizenshuu (and previously released guides based on Daizenshuu) as a reliable source to determine Universe 7's size because many claims regarding its size and structure, such as the existence of four galaxies, or them existing infinitely, the universe being infinite, the heaven being infinite, etc. have been found contradictory, as discussed in several threads. However, the cosmology is subject to change if we get reliable information from new anime episodes, movies, manga chapters, and/or official guidebooks.
- Given that the only explicit gauges that we have to scale the tiers by are from Frieza's first form, and Super Perfect Cell, we had to estimate roughly where in-between that all of the characters would fit during these time periods, as this was the least bad available option. We have spent a massive amount of time arguing about this, and are not willing to waste any more further rearranging the statistics.
- Also, do not ask why we placed Buu saga DBZ characters in the same tier as Super Perfect Cell. The upper border of this tier is roughly a trillion times higher than the bottom, so an upgrade through mere powerscaling alone is impossible.
- Do not create discussion threads trying to upgrade the Z Anime and GT characters based on Super Buu crashing the universe by breaking the walls between dimensions with his Vice Shout as it was discussed and debunked countless times.
- Do not make threads about Skinny Buu not being scaled to Goku. After his fight with Basil, he fought against a casual suppressed Goku, but he quickly lost this form and started to sleep again. All of this points to a gag routine and not serious feats.
- Please do not create discussion threads about the Dragon Ball Super characters being upgraded to 3-A based on Base Goku's revision, as the topic has been discussed to exhaustion at this point and every thread tends to be a repeat of the last one. The characters who became Universal have demonstrated legitimate scaling to be upgraded, while the characters who didn't have not. Failure to adhere to this rule will result in the thread being locked.
- Do not create discussion threads trying to upgrade Vegito to Low 2-C via scaling from Kefla or Infinite Zamasu. This topic has been discussed to the point of becoming tiresome and monotonous. Vegito has no indication of scaling to either and the proposal would be unfounded without further proof.
- Do not create discussion threads trying to change Infinite Zamasu's Low 2-C rating without new evidence. We have had repetitive and extensive discussions on why Infinite Zamasu's feat of becoming the universe is Low 2-C, and not 3-A or 2-C. There is sufficient proof of him merging with time as noted on the profile, and we do not consider the feat to be 2-C because no proof of Zamasu fully merging with more than one universe exists.
- Do not attempt to upgrade the speeds of Dragon Ball Heroes and Dragon Ball Xenoverse characters to infinite or immeasurable. It has been established in our Speed standards that timeless voids are inapplicable for evaluating speed levels, and the cast has consistently been affected by natural flows of time, so they at best have Time Travel or Time Manipulation.
Final Fantasy Rules
- Please avoid creating content revision threads questioning the legitimacy of Sephiroth's supernova feat. It has been discussed several times and accepted as valid. This does not include any future revisions after the Final Fantasy VII remake.
Kingdom Hearts Rules
- Please do not attempt to downgrade Kingdom Hearts on the basis of Xemnas' boss fight and subsequent skyscraper throwing. Logic and scaling through the lore is a far better indicator of the series' overall power, as like many RPGs, the vast majority of events lack direct physical destruction or area of effect.
- Do not attempt to downgrade the Kirby characters without new evidence and arguments. Among other things, we have discussed the issue here, here, and here.
- Do not make Marvel Cinematic Universe revision threads discussing scaling Captain America to Iron Man from their fight in the "Civil War" movie, as this has been discussed many times before, and strongly contradicts the established scale of their respective feats.
- Refrain from scaling characters to the Hadron Enforcer. The weapon was only ever used on Ronan, and the feat has been deemed too inconsistent to be considered anything other than an Outlier. Scaling characters to this weapon would also cause too large inconsistencies throughout the entire verse.
Marvel Comics Rules
- Please avoid making threads to upgrade Marvel or DC Comics characters based on scaling to other characters that they are usually not connected to. For more information read our Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC Comics.
- Do not attempt to upgrade Dormammu, Umar, Eternity, and all of the other Marvel Comics cosmic entities to tier 1-A, based on a single mention within the 2005 "Defenders" series, given that it would enormously contradict virtually everything else known about the characters. In addition, a 1-A fictional environment does not remotely automatically translate to the nature of any characters present within it, or plenty of much weaker characters would qualify as well.
- Also do not attempt to upgrade Galactus to 1-A, based on "Spider-Man and the Secret Wars". The story is not a part of continuity any more than "Avengers and the Infinity Gauntlet" or "Captain America and the Korvac Saga", which were released in conjunction, as part of the same imprint. In addition, if you read the entire comicbook, rather than an out-of-context scan, you clearly see that the Enchantress is not referring to Galactus being beyond all concepts of dimensions of time and space altogether, but about his infinite real size compared to the cosmos, how he can affect lots of different aspects of existence with his reality-warping powers, and since she and Spider-Man are strictly physical entities, they only perceive a small part of his entire being. See here for more information. It would also contradict everything else that we know about Galactus.
- Do not attempt to scale base Thanos from the Phoenix Force, Galactus, the Celestials, and Odinforce Thor, based on 2016 and 2017 storylines within his own comicbook series. These are fairly typical extreme Plot-Induced Stupidity outliers. Within the same story, the Silver Surfer was also treated as a threat, and the Hulk survived Thanos' attacks, whereas Galactus did not. We have to attempt to find a certain degree of historical consistency to scale from, even if the Marvel writers recurrently make such a task near impossible to accomplish.
Medaka Box Rules
- Do not try to upgrade Ajimu Najimi or Hanten Shiranui from Medaka Box to unreasonable degrees. Given that they come from a metafictional parody manga, that mostly revolves around deconstructing, circumventing, dissecting, and exaggerating plot conveniences, and does not remotely make sense from a power-scaling perspective, their statistics are very hard to gauge. For the same reasons, also avoid using them in serious match-up threads. See here for an example.
- Based on context provided by this interview, the End Poem has been deemed insufficient to base profiles, statistics, et cetera on. To summarize, it has been decided that the End Poem is both insufficient to prove potential ratings and considered too questionable in its legitimacy (refer to the aforementioned interview) to support it as justification for any use on this wiki.
My Little Pony Rules
- The My Little Pony comicbooks are not considered to automatically be a part of the TV show's canon continuity. Here is a statement by IDW editor Bobby Curnow regarding that the comics are not canon to the TV show. And here is another statement from the TV show co-director Jim Miller that he has not read the comics yet, and after doing a bit of reading he stated that the comics and the show are separate. The two mediums also constantly contradict each other to great degrees, including for King Sombra and The Dazzlings, which makes them impossible to reconcile as part of the exact same continuity. It would be very against our standard conventions, regardless of comments from the TV show's creators. However, if events involving actual characters from a story or arc in the comics are directly referenced as having happened in the show, then that particular part is clearly canon. As such, the "Legends of Magic" comic series is considered canon to the cartoon due to the show referencing events that occurred in the series months before they aired on the cartoon itself, which fulfills this rule.
- Please refrain from attempting to upgrade the regular statistics of Kaguya and Momoshiki to Star level or above. It was decided that Kaguya should not be granted durability or attack potency comparable to her Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball for her casual attacks, as the only scene wherein this rating would be warranted is strife with Plot-Induced Stupidity. Insistence of this will be unappreciated.
- The Naruto databook descriptions should only be used on a case-by-case basis, depending on if the sources are consistent with the manga or are questionable hyperbole.
- Please do not attempt to upgrade the Truth Seeking Orbs from Naruto as being able to destroy Souls due to Minato's soul's lost arms. We have had several discussions, and even a Staff Discussion regarding the topic, that all reached the conclusion that the TSOs do not actually destroy the soul, but rather nullify the Edo Tensei Ninjutsu.
- Please refrain from attempting to upgrade Momoshiki and Kinshiki above Kaguya based on Sasuke's statement. It was decided that Sasuke was not a reliable source of information regarding Momoshiki's and Kinshiki's powers, since he never faced both until some chapters later. It's also concluded that the statements of "greater threat" and Kaguya fearing them are not enough to make Momoshiki stronger than her, considering the context of her past, and the power-ups that she received during the 1000 years she was on Earth. She also feared three Otsutsuki at the same time, and not only one. The feats displayed are also inconsistent with this scaling, since Momoshiki fought and had trouble with SPSM Naruto after having his chakra drained for a long period of time, and Sasuke, who was low on chakra by using portals, while Kaguya fought and easily overpowered both Naruto and Sasuke at peak condition. This topic has been brought up several times during a brief period of time, and the staff and regular members are tired of dealing with the subject.
- Please refrain from using the "Boruto: Naruto the Movie Novelization" for scaling. It has been retconned by the anime and the manga, which makes it unsuitable for this purpose.
One Piece Rules
- Don't create threads to upgrade One Piece, based on Chinjao supposedly splitting an ice continent, until the story provides us with more evidence, and avoid using statements only to support it.
One-Punch Man Rules
- Do NOT post any threads or comments about Saitama being limitless, omnipotent, or that "he is a gag character who is never meant to lose". This is an illogical line of reasoning that does not fit in with our system, employs a very liberal use of no-limits fallacies, and defeats the base purpose of indexing character statistics. Please note that due to the highly repetitive nature of this particular discussion, failure to follow this rule may result in a block without any particular warning.
- Avoid trying to upgrade Saitama to Star level based on statements from the databook. It has been discussed repeatedly that there are two translations for the Japanese word 星 (Hoshi). It can mean either Planet or Star, and the former is far more consistent with the events of the story and Saitama's own statements.
- Do not try to upgrade any Pokémon trainers, even the strongest and most skilled, to 2-B/2-A based on them keeping up with the Creation Trio. This has been deemed inaccurate on the basis of Game Mechanics and Plot-Induced Stupidity, and it greatly contradicts what the lore has established.
- Do not try to downgrade Arceus, the Creation Trio, and any characters who scale from them based on them being harmed by Pokémon who are consistently shown to be below 2-B/2-A in statistics. This is because those events have been discussed to exhaustion and dismissed as Plot-Induced Stupidity or Game Mechanics. The lore that has been established and the feats they have showcased across all medias, which solidly place them at 2-B/2-A, should take precedence over these inconsistencies.
Spongebob Squarepants Rules
- Do not attempt to upgrade the main cast to FTL or higher speeds based on the feat of Patrick running to the sun in seconds. It has been dismissed as an Outlier due to the sheer inconsistency in relation to all other feats in the series.
Star Wars Rules
- Please do not make content revision threads attempting to upgrade Darth Vader (Star Wars Legends continuity) to Tier 4 based on Word of God that he is 80% as powerful as Darth Sidious. This has been brought up numerous times (these threads just being two examples), but has been rejected every time by staff members and even trusted non-staff members who are knowledgeable when it comes to Star Wars Legends lore as this statement was given by George Lucas to standalone Vanity Fair article and was explicitly his own opinion, which does not take into account the events of Dark Empire. Also, please do not make content revision threads attempting to upgrade Darth Vader (and other Star Wars Legends characters who scale from him) to Tier 4 based on him surviving for a short while after a few seconds of exposure to Force Lightning from Darth Sidious. This, too, has been brought up and rejected.
Super Mario Bros. Rules
- Please refrain from upgrading Mario and Luigi to Dreamy Bowser and/or the Zeekeeper. The Super Mario Bros. franchise has wildly varying statistics and feats across different games, which make powerscaling characters already difficult. Given that this is the second 2-B feat in the entire series, it is generally considered as an outlier.
Super Smash Bros. Rules
- Please do not attempt to establish Super Smash Bros. as canon in any way for the involved franchises. It completely fails to fulfill our canon crossovers requirements, as it obviously lacks sufficient solid interactions and references to the events in many of the canons to fit into their established continuities. To consider it as canon would require a great deal of assumptions to the point of borderline fanfiction. For further information, see here, here and here.
To Aru Majutsu No Index Rules
- Please avoid trying to upgrade To Aru characters to Tier 1-A or above, as this is also highly contradicted by other parts of this work of fiction.
- Do not attempt to upgrade the Toriko character Acacia/Neo to Multi-Galaxy level, based on an Outlier that contradicts every other established feat from the main cast.
Total Drama Rules
- Do not try to upgrade the cast to Low 7-B based on Ezekiel surviving a volcanic eruption. It has been dismissed as a massive Outlier due to the sheer inconsistency in relation to all other feats in the series.
Touhou Project Rules
- Do not try to downgrade Touhou’s speed ratings on the basis of Marisa’s claim that nothing can move faster than light. Not only is this directly contradicted shortly after the statement is made due to Marisa outrunning her own light-speed Master Spark, but characters such as Sakuya are directly stated to move faster than light, and numerous other characters have demonstrated consistent FTL and higher feats. As such, this statement should be considered unreliable.
Yu Yu Hakusho Rules
- Don't attempt to upgrade S-class characters in Yu Yu Hakusho to planet busters, as this has also previously been discussed over and over and has turned redundant.
Cool Cat Rules
- Please do not try to add any characters from the Cool Cat series. They lack any legitimate or notable feats to index, and the author has been notoriously touchy regarding copyright for it. Our staff have also grown tired of the repeated requests to allow this.
- We have very repeatedly discussed this issue, and have reached the conclusion that the verse in question will never be allowed to have profiles in this wiki. There are several reasons for this, including its severe lack of notability and writing quality. Meaning that it is too inconsistent and incoherent for our members to properly analyze, and that it is obscure to the point that most of them cannot even get a hold of all of the source texts for reference. It is also completely incompatible with our tiering system, given that it was mainly created in order to flood wikis such as our own with hundreds of tier 0 pages. As such, please follow suit and do not try to argue for allowing it again, as it only serves to waste the time of other members.